MEMORIES IN FUTURE TENSE -- IT'S JUST THE BLURRED CRUSADE
by Michael Delaney
From Juke magazine, June 26, 1982
The Church play a stylish and articulate hybrid of contemporary folk-rock and neo-psychedelic powerpop, its roots as much in the foppish, Dylanesque idiosyncrasies of Steve Harley/Cockney Rebel ('Make Me Smile', 'Se bastian', Mr Soft') and the throbbing, medium-weight insistency of mid-period T. Rex ('Hot Love', 'Get It On') as in the east coast electric folk of The Byrds ('Eight Miles High', 'Mr Tambourine Man'). But more so than ever , it's that reflective, sonic, solipsistic jingle-jangle mesh of chiming 12-string guitar and sunburst vocal harmony so much the latter's stock-in-trade that has determined the present (and one would suspect future) profile of The Church.
Lead by vocalist/writer Steve Kilbey, The Church is fundamentally the result of his vision, his persona, astutely imaginative, some would say eccentric, lyricist and tunesmith, Kilbey's engagingly eclectic blend of myth, mystery, romance, wonder, exotica and wide-eyed esoterica has fashioned some of the most interesting, memorable and distinctive pop/rock currently on vinyl. Though they quite openly flaunt their influences, The Church at no stage content themselves with mere imitation. They may owe a great deal in form to the music (and spirit) of The Byrds, but, simply this, no-one sounds like The Church. No-one else has quite the same magic. No-one else has quite so effectively joined together such seemingly oppositional characteristics: vulnerability and tensile strength; insight and, at times, flagrant naiveté.
To repeat, The Church are distinctive, different. They have a sense of integrity, a sense of honor, a nobility in what they say and in the way they say it that has both substance and pertinence. They make a whole lot of valuable sense to a whole lot of people. At the same time, they're like quicksilver, elusive and illusive, hard to pin down -- not that you would want to, or, for that matter, should, because that denies them their subtlety, their space. And space has a lot to do with what The Church do and say. Inner space. The space in between the words and the music. The space in between us all. The illusion of space between us all. And The Church needs a lot of space within which, unfettered, they can ebb and flow, soar and shimmer, build to furious intensities and then evaporate clean and clear away leaving naught but their bitter-sweet afterglow to permeate like incense. Put it like this: you don't break the butterfly on the wheel.
The Church have confidence and tremendous personality, a considerately energetic yet curiously implosive edge that, despite its exuberance and sense of grandeur, retains a gentle, reflective, almost self-effacing sensitivity. Intriguing and genuinely insidious, The Church exhilarate a sense of majesty and a fullbodied emotional presence as intangible as it is thoroughly pervasive/persuasive. It's there, but don't try and pin it down because it'll just spill right through your fingers. That's their nature. That's The Church.
Derek Taylor once said of The Byrds that they were 'one of the few groups with value who could relate to values beyond the sound of music, who could reach to the ends of the world and touch, just touch a human spirit and leave that touch to work and activate what it may...' Like The Byrds, The Church are one of these groups and one cannot say why, because it isn't FELT, then it isn't to be explained in words.
EVEN THOUGH THE FIRST OVERSEAS SET IS DOING SO WELL, YOU'VE INTIMATED THAT CAPITOL IN THE STATES ISN'T ALL THAT IMPRESSED WITH THE BLURRED CRUSADE 2E WHY IS THAT?
Well, I spoke to Bruce Raywood who's the guy that initially signed us up, and after he'd heard the album, he said he was a bit worried that there wasn't a hit single on it and some of the tracks were a bit too long. He said it wasn't as punchy or as poppy as the first album. I keep hearing reports through various sources that, despite listening to it over and over again , they still don't think the second album'll go all that well in America.
THERE'S NOTHING ON THE BLURRED CRUSADE QUITE AS HARD-HITTING AS 'MEMORIES IN FUTURE TENSE' OR 'FOR A MOMENT WE'RE STRANGERS'.
Oh, I like 'For A Moment We're Strangers', but I don't like 'Memories....'
WHY NOT?
That was a song that I think got a bit our of control. It's ended up very different from how it was originally intended. I think there's enough bands around already playing that sort of music without us doing it as well.
I DIDN'T THINK THE SECOND SIDE OF THE FIRST ALBUM WAS AS GOOD AS IT COULD'VE BEEN. I FOUND IT REALLY PATCHY.
Really?
YEAH. I'VE NEVER LIKED 'SHE NEVER SAID'. I THINK IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN OMITTED FROM THE LP -- I THINK IT DESTROYS THE CONTINUITY. IT'S A REALLY DISPOSABLE SONG, CERTAINLY IN COMPARISON TO 'THE UNGUARDED MOMENT', ' FOR A MOMENT WE'RE STRANGERS' AND 'FIGHTER PILOT -- KOREAN WAR'.
Yeah, that's true. 'She Never Said' was done really early. In fact, it was the first thing we ever recorded. I don't think it was recorded as well as it could've been . I mean, that was the first time we were ever in a proper studio. If we did it now, I think we could fulfill the potential that the song had, but really, it was a bit of a rush job on that first album.
YOUR GIG SCHEDULE IS FAIRLY EXHAUSTING. WHEN DO YOU FIND THE TIME TO WRITE?
I haven't written any songs for a while, but every now and then I'll just sit down and write three or four songs over a period of one or two days.
DOES YOUR WRITING COME FAIRLY EASILY?
Yeah, no worries!
YOUR SONGS HAVE RECEIVED A LOT OF CRITICISM FOR WHAT SOME CONSIDER TO BE THEIR LACK OF SUBSTANCE; AURAL BROCADES, ALL FORM AND NO CONTENT.
Well, you know, it's like 'Blue Poles' One man sees a thousand things in it, the destiny of mankind, and someone else'll just regard it as a blob of paint smeared over a piece of canvas. What can you say? To each his own.
WHERE DID THE CHURCH SOUND ORIGINATE? THERE'S ALWAYS LOTS OF OBVIOUS REFERENCES TO THE BYRDS, T. REX, STEVE HARLEY. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THESE PEOPLE, IF IN FACT, IT IS THESE PARTICULAR PEOPLE, THAT HAS PARTICULARLY INFLUENCED YOU?
I just think The Byrds is like taking a trip. They're like seeing a really sad film that has this strange type of triumphant ending, or something. I don't know. See, I always think that if I knew what it was that I liked about those people I could say it, but it really is something that you can't quite....
SURE, IT'S THEIR FEELING!
Oh, definitely! It's very difficult to pin an emotion, the spirit of what's happening. How do you contain that? It is what it is and everybody's interpretation and reaction is different.
IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PIN DOWN SOMETHING AS ELUSIVE AND EVASIVE AS THE BYRDS! I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THAT IN PRINT FOR FIFTEEN YEARS! THEY'D BE WITHOUT DOUBT, THE MUSIC THAT'S AFFECTED ME THE MOST OF ALL.
Yeah, they were very special.
AND T. REX? MARC BOLAN? WHERE DOES HE FIT IN?
Oh, I was just totally infatuated with Marc Bolan for two or three years! When I was 17 or 18. The albums A Beard Of Stars, T. Rex, and Electric Warrior are probably the most played records in my collection.
I THINK THE T. REX ALBUM WAS THE BEST THING HE MADE.
Just with him and Mickey Finn on the cover?
YEAH, THE ONE WITH THE RE-RECORDED VERSIONS OF 'ONE INCH ROCK' AND ' THE WIZARD'.
Oh, yeah! That's fantastic! I've always enjoyed that sort of delicacy that T. Rex had. I mean, it was rock & roll and it made you want to dance, but it wasn't oafish and brutal. I used to sit down and listen to his lyrics over and over again! It's the sort of music that you can just get totally lost in. You can retire from the real world and just listen to that album and let it take you somewhere else entirely.
I DON'T THINK BOLAN EVER RECORDED A BETTER VOCAL THAN THAT RETAKE OF ' THE WIZARD'. I REALLY THINK IT'S ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING AND IMAGINATIVE VOCAL TRACKS THAT'S BEEN CUT UNDER THE AEGIS OF ROCK. IT'S ASTONISHING! THE FIRST TIME I HEARD IT I WAS COMPLETELY SUNNED! I'D NEVER HEARD ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN MY LIFE.
That big freakout at the end!
WHAT ABOUT STEVE HARLEY & COCKNEY REBEL? THERE'S A VERY PRONOUNCED CONNECTION IN VOCAL STYLE BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU.
I really liked the first two Cockney Rebel albums.
'ALMOST WITH YOU' REMINDS ME A LOT OF 'MAKE ME SMILE' -- THE FLOWING ACOUSTIC RHYTHMS, THE SPANISH ACOUSTIC LEAD GUITAR, THE CONVERSATIONAL VOCAL, THE OVERALL LILT.
Do you really think so? I'd say 'Just For You' has a lot more in common with 'Make Me Smile' but yeah, I can see what you mean. I think the first album, in particular, 'Human Menagerie' was wonderful! The lyrics are just amazing! It's a really showbiz type of album, very cinematic, very romantic, sort of circusy.
THERE WAS ALWAYS THAT ELEMENT OF THE TRADITIONAL ENGLISH MUSIC HALL IN THE FIRST TWO COCKNEY REBEL ALBUMS. THE VOCALS WERE ALWAYS VERY INTIMATE, AND THE MUSICAL SETTINGS VERY GRAND, COLOURFUL. THE CHURCH HAVE THOSE SAME QUALITIES.
Yeah, that's right! No-one knew how to record my vocals on the first album except me. No-one really listened. Instead of standing in a room with the microphone turned right up so I could relax and sort of, you know, croon the vocals, I had to stand there and yell because it was turned right down. It made it really difficult for me. I wasn't particularly happy with the way it turned out, but, like, that's just part of the learning process.
YOU'RE IN A VERY VULNERABLE POSITION AS A BAND. YOU'VE ONLY BEEN TOGETHER A SHORT TIME, YOU'VE RECORDED TWO HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL ALBUMS, BUT YOUR 'L IVE' PROFILE HAS DRAWN TREMENDOUS FLAK BECAUSE OF YOUR RELATIVE LACK OF EXPERIENCE IN THAT PARTICULAR MEDIUM. PERSONALLY, AT THIS STATE, I SEE YOU FAR MORE AS A STUDIO BAND. THERE ARE FAR TOO MANY VARIABLES INVOLVED IN 'LIVE' WORK.
We're not your basic 'meat and potatoes' group, you know? We're not the sort of group who can just troop out on stage and run through the songs. There's a lot of very delicate personalities in the band and if somebody has a bad night, it really rubs off on everybody. All I can say is that, sure, we have a lot of mediocre nights, but when we have a good night I think it's really worth waiting for.
THE CHURCH STRIKE ME AS A VERY MOODY BAND. IT MUST BE DIFFICULT MAINTAINING AN EVEN EMOTIONAL KEEL?
Oh yeah! Sometimes it's just havoc! I've never met anyone like the other three guys. We're all like laws unto ourselves.
HOW DO YOU MEAN? UNPREDICTABLE?
Peter's incredibly moody. Very intense. You know, I watch the television clips back and you can just see how Peter is such a dark, brooding person. He can sink to the depths of despair and then suddenly just bounce back and be extremely elated. He tends to ping-pong back and forth between the two. Richard's the most blasé 19-year-old person I've ever met in my life! We could sell ten million albums and you'd ring him up and tell him and he'd say, 'Yeah, but have you got any good hash?!' He just doesn't get affected by it, you know? Marty's generally a sort of very happy, easy to get along with person. Every so often he'll go through this thing where he gets very unwilling and stubborn, sort of petulant in a way. And, of course, the bigger the band gets, all of these individual qualities start to become more and more exaggerated, and the bigger you are the, the more you can afford to....
INDULGE YOUR WHIMS?
Yeah, and I don't know, sometimes it gets to the stage where we're all sort of living out our fantasies of what we think people in our position should behave.
THAT CAN BE DANGEROUS. DO YOU THINK THE BAND HAS A FAIRLY STABLE RELATIONSHIP, GRANTED THAT EVERYBODY DOES CONFLICT AT SOME STAGE DUE TO THE NATURE OF THE CREATIVE BOND?
Yeah. Yeah, I do. I really hope that we can maintain ourselves, but, like Peter's a really unpredictable guy. Success doesn't mean much to him. It's his own personal feelings. If he feels he's not....Sometimes Peter feels he's not playing up to his 100 percent potential -- which I think is crazy 'cause, like, I really rate him as one of the best guitarists ever -- and it makes him feel like he wants to do other things, he could leave. No matter how well or how badly we're doing. he could just leave. I think Marty and Richard are pretty well committed.
YOU'VE BECOME PRETTY MUCH THE FOCAL POINT OF THE BAND, AS THE LEAD VOCALIST AND CHIEF WRITER. DO YOU FIND THAT FORM OF ATTENTION DIFFICULT TO ASSIMILATE?
yeah. Sometimes I feel bad that the other three have to put up with the things that I say because, when someone asks you a question, everyone assumes that you're automatically the spokesman for the whole band and that's just not the situation at ALL! I can't speak for anyone else, that's just not the way it is. Like, on SOUNDS the other day, Martin was asked to justify something that I'd said about myself being the best songwriter in the w orld, which was a misquote anyway. I mean, that's totally unfair. That's putting him in a situation that's just ridiculous! All the guy wants to do is play guitar and get on with the job.
SURE. BUT THEN AGAIN, YOU MUST REALIZE THAT BECAUSE OF THE BAND'S RAPID SUCCESS YOU'RE GOING TO CREATE MORE PRONOUNCED INTEREST AND POLARITY. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO REGARD IMMEDIATE ACCLAIM WITH A LOT OF SUSPICION. I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE OUT FOR YOU, WHICH THEY ARE.
Yeah, but that's alright!
ARE YOU SURPRISED AT THE ALBUM'S OVERSEAS SUCCESS?
I don't know. Yeah, some days I'm full of doubt and some days I think that nothing can stop us. Really, I try not to think about what's happening overseas.
I WAS REALLY SURPRISED TO SEE THAT QUITE A FEW OF THE ENGLISH REVIEWS HAVE TAKEN TO THE CHURCH WITH OPEN ARMS. THAT'S SO OUT OF CHARACTER FOR THEM!
Yeah! That was astonishing! That really has surprised me.
ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING ASPECTS OF THE CHURCH IS THAT, EVEN THOUGH YOU DO FLAUNT YOUR INFLUENCES QUITE REMARKABLY, THE BAND DOESN'T COME ACROSS AS ANY FORM OF IMITATION.
Hmmmm. I don't know why. Maybe we're actually not good enough to pull our influences off. Maybe if we were better musicians....
I DON'T THINK YOU UNDERSTAND ME. I THINK YOU DO PULL IT OFF, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! I THINK YOUR INFLUENCES ARE OBVIOUS, PRIMARILY THAT OF THE BYRDS, BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, NO-ONE SOUNDS QUITE LIKE THE CHURCH. NOBODY ELSE SAYS THINGS QUITE LIKE THE CHURCH.
I don't know what that is. Just lucky!
YOU DO COME ACROSS IN SOME SITUATIONS WITH FAIRLY, AH, AMBIGUOUS STATEMENTS.
I'm becoming aware of this, yeah. I just want people to get what they want out of what we do: to enjoy it for whatever reason they want to. The reason I've been very reluctant to say what the lyrics are about is because I haven't wanted to spoil it for people. Anyone who's interested enough can interpret them to suit their own perceptions. I mean, everyone's point of view is different.
YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE AWAY THAT SENSE OF MYSTERY?
Yeah! But, like, what's happened now is that everyone's saying, 'oh, the lyrics are meaningless. You've said the lyrics are meaningless, so if you don't see anything in them then I'm damned if I'm going to look for anything in them.' That's not what I wanted to happen at all! I really thought that people wouldn't take me so literally. Of course the lyrics mean somet ing to me, but I don't want to spoil it for everyone else.
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Oh, and by the way, this issue of JUKE indicates that this particular interview is part one of two parts, and was to have concluded in the next week's issue. Unfortunately, I don't have that one. : ( Anybody else have it? I guess that would be July 2, 1982. - Cath